Congratulations, You Done Sold Out!

If there is one thing that I think every single Christian can agree on, it’s that the church is no place for politics.  Tell that to Rick Warren… 

Yep, the ineffable pastor of Saddleback Church out in California had something of a townhall meeting with our two potential Presidents.  Of course, even though they were in church, the two wouldn’t agree to being seen on-stage together… but they were both in church!  Sometimes, the fact that they actually shared breathing space is astonishing.  Other times, they sound so much alike you wonder if one is just a clone of the other.

There were a couple of expected buttocks-smooching moments for the formerly “Conservative Evangelical” front.  Both said some things that made most of the political world go “uuuuuummmmmmm….”  I found the idea of asking the two what their greatest moral failings were was a very nice touch.  However, I think that there was one very big question that draws a line between the two that is symptomatic of their larger political structure.  The question that addressed abortion.

Obama stood up… on stage in a church… and declared that the decision about when someone is actually a “life”, whether doctrinally or theologically, was “above his pay grade”.  This statement is a forgoing of all responsibility regarding current policy, a largely non-inflammatory statement that takes no stance of any kind, and means that he can vote any way he feels like it on “pro-life” legislation.  Consider it a ginormous, glowing “I don’t know” from the candidate in the left corner.  McCain, on the other hand stood tall and proud, and declared to the world that he has a 25-year track record of voting pro-life.  To be noted, this statement is direct, to the point, and verefiable through old-fashioned journalistic cynicism.

What this says to me?  If you are pro-choice and planning to vote for Obama, you have to do so knowing that you might get thrown under the bus if someone puts up the right incentive package to pass a law protecting life.  If you are looking for someone with opinions about what the right thing to do is and isn’t going to let advisors with an agenda make policy for them, McCain might actually be the smarter choice.  I’m no fan of McCain… I disagree with him on plenty.  But as I continually tell people, I will vote for someone who I know I honestly disagree with before voting for someone who tries to sound like they might agree with me someday……… every time I have the opportunity to.



~ by xristosdomini on August 17, 2008.

11 Responses to “Congratulations, You Done Sold Out!”

  1. “This statement is a forgoing of all responsibility regarding current policy, a largely non-inflammatory statement that takes no stance of any kind, and means that he can vote any way he feels like it on “pro-life” legislation. Consider it a ginormous, glowing “I don’t know” from the candidate in the left corner.”

    What you see as a negative I see as breathtakingly honest and refreshing.

    “I don’t know” is the exact correct answer when asking a POLITICIAN when life is supposed to begin. He is not a biologist, medical doctor or theologian. He’s a politician. And for any politician to claim they know for certain when life begins is extremely inaccurate and arrogant.

  2. I’m inclined to agree with morsecode. Can any human being honestly say they know for a fact when life begins? Can anyone see into the soul of a developing embryo? Even if Barack Obama were a doctor, theologian, or scientist, it would still be very presumptuous for him to say he knows when life begins.

  3. Morsecode:
    Hence the larger problem with politicians in general. I would rather vote for someone with a specific conviction that can be evaluated than someone who refuses to actually say what they believe. Whether or not Obama has a political stance on Abortion is not what I see as the key part of his statement. What I would have liked to have seen is his personal conviction. Admittedly, as one wise person said, we pay politicians to not have a conscience. On the one hand, that is good political strategy, on the other hand, I would much rather prefer to see the product I’m purchasing before handing out my vote.

    Seeing as how the vast majority of the people being addressed at this particular gathering believe that abortion is an issue of morality, saying “I don’t know” about it is somewhat more than disconcerting. As I have mentioned, even if he has a lack of a political stance on the issue, he definitely has a stance in his personal life. This is evidenced by the fact that he told America that if one of his daughters made a ‘mistake’, “I wouldn’t want them punished with a baby.” In fact, I would have been happier if Obama had flat out said that he endorses a woman’s right to choose (which is what his stance seems to be) and remove some of the ambiguity of his politics.

    To all:
    I hope that you will see what it is that marks the contrast between Obama and McCain that I noted. McCain’s answer is verifiable against repeated facts. Which means it is possible to ascertain not only his real position on the issue, but also his level of honesty regarding his speeches. Obama’s answer seems to either side-step the whole issue or just pretend that it doesn’t exist at all… on an issue that he has already addressed a couple of times. To be short, I would prefer that B.O. had told us all what he believes (even with a qualifier that his opinion is unprofessional), so the answer he gave hit me as inadequate at best.

  4. “Its above my pay grade”

    It may indeed be said this was an honest answer. However, the socialist candidate running for election to the office of the president of the United States is the man who said this. He is on record as being in favor of abortion as late as the day before due dates, partial birth abortion, and even counseling his daughters that if they “make a mistake” then they should have the opportunity to erase that mistake (paraphrased — the exact quote is on my blog).

    So he has already demonstrated that he really doesn’t care when life begins — only that he cares about ending life for convenience. Its an issue that has been wrangled over by US presidents for decades. Now a contender for the presidency thinks its over his pay-grade. I agree.

    Since this is, by his own admission, “above his pay-grade,” he should not be president either and should therefore withdraw his candidacy for election to the office of president of the United States based on this admission that he is not up to the tasks and ability the office requires.

  5. Would you care to show where he said that he is in favor of abortion as late as before the due date?

    McCain, being for life at conception, I view to be scientifically wrong. So I’d rather put my support behind someone who says “I don’t know” than someone who says something inaccurate.

  6. Morsecode,

    Assuming you were referring to my comment…

    It seems likely the abortion issue is above your pay-grade as well since partial-birth abortion is done right up to the due-date. (As for your view life at conception you have only interjected an opinion as the scientific “debate” is ongoing.) Your support is misplaced as the socialist candidate was trying to deliberately mislead while McCain was open and honest on his view. But if you like vague answers versus the open and honest answers…

  7. I disagree. McCain was giving the answer he knew would appeal to the religious audience. Obama was being honest.

    Funny, how you speak about partial-birth abortion as if it hasn’t been outlawed. Not only that, but I have not come across a person alive who has supported it.

    The scientific debate IS ongoing. But in ongoing, it is pretty certain that life does not begin at conception. Even theologically it does not make sense: if a soul is given at conception, what about twins, which split well after conception? Does the soul split in half? Does the original zygote have two souls? Does that particular zygote have to wait to get it’s soul?

    And if ensouled at conception, do you realize that the vast majority of technical pregnancies end in spontaneous miscarriage/abortion? If your worldview is correct, then your heaven must be full to the brim with aborted zygotes.

  8. Snowball,
    Your socialist is on congressional voting records in favor of partial-birth abortions.

    About theology: its interesting that you would even care. Since theology is a study of God then properly understood a theologian must seek to find God’s perspective. Oh, and make no mistake, He has a perspective on this issue. Speaking to the prophet Jeremiah He says, “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.” (Jeremiah 1:5). I put the context to show relationship God endears with His people. It makes your point useless and moot.

    But, having suffered through two miscarriages, my wife and I truly have hope that God’s heaven is indeed filled “to the brim with aborted zygotes.” We will find out. You seem convinced you won’t.

  9. I just heard the question and response on the radio this morning, and I am reeling. I think Obama’s answer was totally honest and transparent, but it wasn’t “I don’t know”

    Obama’s position has been to make a woman’s “right” to exterminate her baby absolute. In Illinois, then State Senator Obama advocated legislation that said basically, if a baby, having survived an abortion procedure, is born alive, the mother may still direct medical personnel to finish it off. Post birth infantacide is way worse than the abhorrant partial birth procedure, and you can depend on President BHO to proudly champion both in the name of womens rights.

    Obama’s clever dodge answer wasn’t “I don’t know”, it was, “it doesn’t matter”. Obama is clearly for killing any babies at any time – and even the rationale of “viability” escapes his notice. It is disgusting. I think it is a criminal disregard for the gift given “above his pay grade”.

  10. Here’s a more detailed critique of Barack Obama’s pro-abortion position:

  11. My answer as to when life begins is that it does commence at conception. At the very least, no one would argue that the mulitplying embrionic cells are “alive”. They metabolize, reproduce, and show all the same characteristics of the cells of an organ. For that, the embrionic cells are “alive”.

    So, this is not as much an argument about whether or not an embryo/fetus/baby is “alive” in the womb. The question is whether or not preventing that life from entering the outside world is as much murder as killing a person that is already in the outside world. For me, I would have to give an unequivocal yes.

    However, I’m not really highlighting the abortion issue specifically on this post. I’m more highlighting the political issue of Obama’s “spongy” politics… compared to McCain who will at least give you a picture of what you will get if you vote for him. Quite honestly, that is what worrys me most about the above interviews with Rick Warren.

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